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A call for help

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Author: ngphil

Group: Default

Filesize: 211.14 kB

Date added: 2016-08-06

Rating: 7.2

Downloads: 2366

Views: 1363

Comments: 50

Ratings: 10

Times favored: 1

Made with: Algodoo v2.1.0

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I know scenes with only text are forbidden, but please, hear what I have to say here.
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Nicely put out. Although I'm one of the kids in this, I would agree. Quite a bit of algobox is flooded. The only good people out of us all is alasmyfoe, who has made some advanced stuff and has added many types of scripting to his scenes, me, who atleast dosen't spam any more and put some more effort into what I make, and maybe 2 more. Other than that, the rest is spam.:/

Though you made it clear that we make the same stuff over and over, and I have to agree, we do, but at the same time, you guys have too every once in a while, so that some what kinda is procrasinating a little bit.

Plus, Xray tried doing something about it. Problem is, the filtering isn't really too good. If I had anything to do about the filtering, is Muting. You can mute a user from scenes, or comments. It would help alot on advanced users because you can atleast see only the good scenes, and not spam.


Overall though, I agree with you, NG Phil. Admins still need to do something about it, and I jut gave them a good idea. :tup:
Anyways, bye, ngphil. (PS: I actually saw your scenes, great job on all of them!)
Hmm. Yeah. You're right. I can't do much about it though, other than not spam myself, which is what I try to do.

Some notes:
Firstly, not all marble races are spam, thankfully. It's when you either make them at an very scary rate, or they're copied. Some are amazing, while others aren't. This goes for a lot of things.

Second, can you put scenes into groups directly from Algodoo? It would make things a lot easier for me, and others. Sigh.

Third, perhaps if we blatantly forced the spammers to learn about scripting, they might use it. It would work on me. I think.

And last, perhaps we could get Cary to make a video on this. This would impact the spam a lot, for 2 reasons.
1. ALL the spam is based on something he did.
2. Most, if not all, of the spammers are fans of his creations on youtube.
It's a horrible idea, but worth it. Meh.
So yeah, i'll work on that, but in the meantime, i'm probably not gonna post anything, for a long time.

Hopefully.

It would be better off that way. lol ;)

@Ultra Yes. Muting. Best thing ever. Holy, uh, i dunno.
Hi Phil -
Actually, Emanuel Dahlberg, an employee of Algoryx (the company that owns Algodoo and Algobox) makes the rules, not us Admins. We only enforce the rules. Concerning text scenes, they used to be not allowed, but Emanuel made it clear to us Admins that text only scenes are allowed as long as they are used for making announcements to all users (For example, a user will be gone on vacation for a period of time and he/she wants to let his friends know about it. OR a user might announce the start of a new contest or challenge). The type of text scenes that we do NOT allow is user-to-user chat. For example, we do not allow text scenes like: "Hey Ultra, How do you like my color blue?", and that sort of nonsense.

Secondly, your text is difficult to read because you made it on the maximum zoom level, and so readers cannot zoom out any more in order to reduce the size of the message. The way it is now, I had to use the Move tool to hold the text box and move it from side to side in order to read your message.

Thirdly, your message is too complex for children to read, which is really who the message should be addressed to. It is also too verbose. When sending a text message to children, it must be simple to read (about 2nd or 3rd grade level) and not be too long. Otherwise they WILL NOT BOTHER TO READ IT.

Forthly, I doubt very much that Emanuel will make any further changes to Algobox. As you most likely know, it took him a very long time just to make the few changes that were recently made to the filter system. There are MANY changes that I would like to see, and I have made my suggestions directly to him, but he has neither the time nor the funds to make those badly needed changes. His recent changes helped to some degree, but they are far from ideal (in my opinion). But we are stuck with it for now, and probably into the foreseeable future.

Lastly, You are one of the remaining "technical" people who make excellent dynamic scenes, and I for one HOPE that you will not leave Algobox.

Finally, a word about Algobox history. During the early days of Algodoo development, Algobox (this website) was mostly visited by teens and young adults (with a few "old timers" like kilinich, s_noonan, wild bill, and many other older but very talented people). Within the past 4 or 5 years after Algodoo was given out for FREE, the young kids started coming to Algobox. Now, the site is overrun with very young children who can only make and post very simple, non-moving scenes. They basically use Algodoo like MS Paint. And they made various games that use their simple scenes, such as Athlons and camps. Of course, adults do not like to interact with children, and that is the main reason why so many talented adults and older teens have left Algobox. I equate to the fact that adults and children cannot "play" in the same sandbox together. It just ain't natural!

I whish there was a way that Algobox could be separated into two different sections. One for children and new users, and the other for experienced or "technical" users. Emanuel does not like that idea, and so it will not happen. :/

Enough rambling for now, but this is pretty much the situation as I see it.

Again, I truly hope that you will stick around and keep posting awesome scenes! But you of course must do what you feel is best for you.

Xray
Last edited at 2016/08/06 22:06:39 by Xray
When I opened Algobox today, all but 5 the scenes I saw were messages, small drawings, and other insignificant items not related to the purpose of this software. I think the problem is the most of the spammers are not responsible enough to be in this community. I propose finding a way to make the system more difficult to abuse, so that uploading a scene to Algobox would be more difficult to users who are not mature enough. For example math questions you need to get right before you can upload a scene. Another way to help clean up this mess is to create a way for users to tag scenes, and have the tagged scenes moved to a different group. Many of the scenes made by immature users are very easy to spot, and if even just a few users were enlisted or volunteered to help tag these scenes for transfer to their proper group, we would probably see a massive improvement in the quality of scenes. Sadly the deluge of trivial images messages junk and debris are still clogging the arteryways of Algobox, and the default group has barely seen a difference. I don't know how viable these strategies are, but I hope a way to sort through these scenes should be created soon. Maybe even a drastic strategy like changing the default group into the marble races etc. group might work well too. Thanks Admins for doing the best you can, and I wish you guys luck if you try another way to stem this flow of toxic waste from polluting Algobox.
Sometimes, even I think that my scenes were a disgrace to Algodoo's "used to be legendary" community. The codes in my scenes were just too simple!

Anyways, I highly agree with your statement. It was honestly depressing that the Algodoo Community wasn't as good as it was used to be. Speaking of depression, Even some users like InsertNameHere got himself depressed because of this!
I also agree with the "effort not well paid off" part, imagine if you built a super detailed scene with advanced state of the art technology ended up getting dunked by spams. And when you tell them to stop spamming, they just said "hurr durr, ignore us pls, lol". And from that moment, you may feel disappointed or maybe enraged by their irresponsibility. They(not all,but some) just don't understand, that scenes are pushed away by newer scenes and spam scenes may quicken the process of trashing our scenes into the next page and so on, decreasing the chances of getting noticed by some people.

Yes, I do tried to make a "recovery/shelter zone" for technical users(which is currently active, click this if you want to visit the site)in hoping to overcome the problem of people quitting and bringing people(technical builders) closer together.
Last edited at 2016/08/07 00:49:56 by faytree
Xray, that's very kind of you.

I'll consider staying. I just need some time to think things through
To be honest I actually still wonder why I still stick around. These mindless children, abusing this program just suck any possible inspiration right out of me. I haven't even created anything other than 1 engine in months now.

I used to love this game, now I'm starting to hate it due to the ignorant creator / owner of the game, not willing to listen and understand the complaints.
Also NG, this link leads to a group of some users that still create actually good scenes, here

https://plus.google.com/communities/107669367203334006266

also posting cause faytree's doesnt work
So, who is Firdaus Mohd? Did he have a user name here on Algobox before branching off and starting his own Algodoo community? Just curious.
I get extreme amounts of downloads on my scenes for some reason, i suggest you use logos and more interesting thumbnails. (placing the logo of the manufacturer above the gun) I can even do logos for you if you want.
To hide all the spam, i went into settings and disabled ''default'' and ''Marble & Athlons BFDI''. Then place your scenes in technical and just forget that the spammers ever existed.
@Xray-
That "Firdaus Mohd" dude is me;)
Yes, I owned the group
Last edited at 2016/08/07 06:03:44 by faytree
Just stop with those message about "Stop spamming marble races & stuffs"
please. You can actually hide those groups instead, like what MrLucasManSwe said.
Also, more than 3 months ago. the hateful comments and downrating to the MR scenes are ruining one of Carykh's or Jack Spero's or other's fan. Otherwise, one of those will make a rant of Carykh and Jack Spero or others

ngphil, at least you can hide MR & Algothons or something:)
Oh so because you can hide them makes it completely fine for them to trash up the website???

That's like saying there's a hacker on a server and being like "dude stop complaining go to another server" and treating the hacker as if he's doing nothing wrong

it's the most retarded mentality I've ever heard and i cannot believe people still use it
I want to share a few views on this particular situation.

I came into the Algodoo community very late (in 2014). I am aware that my voice may not have the same weight as more seasoned and veteran users such as Phil, Linkage... etc. I have a huge passion for firearms, and Algodoo allows me to materialise these wonderful machines into dynamic, fun and beautiful animations.

What we need to do, is not criticise the "kids" too hard. They pursue different goals but however, like us, also want to share their creations on a huge, free and accessible platform. Reality has to be faced. Algodoo is now a free software and Algobox is a public site where anyone can upload anything as long as it is within the rules. Heck, if Algodoo was not free I would not have even bothered to take a look at other people's creations or create myself. It is wrong to assume that the community is not "as good as it used to be". Things change.

I also think that a lot of so called "advanced users", which like me take this small software way too seriously :lol: , are being drama queens. I find it absurd to create scenes for the purpose of competing in downloads or ratings. This is a hobby at best, and people who see this as their second life are frankly a bit pitiful. If your scene is of high quality and of high value, it will be recognised on its own and people will appreciate it.

The "advanced users" should change their approach. Sharing knowledge and showing new ways of tackling engineering problems is way more valuable than posting these sort of open letters and "threatening" to quit. I'll be honest here, the fact that you "quit" will not affect the community. It will move on, new users will arrive, present ones will keep posting, some will stop. Again, Algobox is ever-changing and public. It is very difficult and even impossible to suppress other people's creations just because a handful of "advanced users" deem them unsuitable.

The fact that you take Algodoo seriously and make mechanical scenes (like me) is a choice. There is absolutely nothing wrong with making something else less formal, as long as it falls in the rules. I find it extremely offensive and harmful to call other people's scenes "toxic waste". They do not expect the same thing from Algodoo as we do.

I apologise for being blunt and I hope you respect my point of view. Discussion is always possible. :tup:
Very well stated, Meerkoos. I'm sure that not everyone agrees with everything that you stated, but you did make some very good points. :tup:

BTW - I am a gun nut too. I recently purchased an AR15 (M4 carbine style) to add to my collection, and it's my most enjoyable gun to shoot. :)
This is the same thing that happens to any small community that becomes large and popular. Even YouTube had a relatively small community back when it started. Once it started becoming bigger and more popular, people wouldn't get as many views and would get buried in the massive amount of videos being uploaded everyday.
It's the same situation here.

There will always be people interested in your content though. and people that will stick around no matter what. Like myself. (even though Ive been on a 6 month hiatus)
You just have to make stuff that people want to see (not that you don't)
build it and they will come.

But really the most important thing is to make things on Algodoo because you enjoy it. And just think of Algobox as a bonus.
Except youtube had good content that flushed out the bad, here the bad and childish crap flushes out the good
INH - It's "childish crap" to you, but certainly not to the children who make those childish scenes. That's why I have been pushing for many years for Algobox to be split into two separate sections with separate log-ins. One for the children and one for mature users. Unfortunately, Emanuel is against such a thing and so it will never happen. The only thing that we mature/technical users can do is to go somewhere else and maybe start another Algobox type website that only allows people over (pick a number) years old. I realize that it's almost impossible to confirm a person's age when they register, but over time, the children who attempt to cheat the system will be known by the type of scenes that they post and the type of comments they make. Faytree runs another Algobox type of website for Algodoo users (the link is shown in his comments above), but I don't think he is strong enough to control who uses it (no offense Faytree!). If it were my own website, I would not allow anyone under 18.
Last edited at 2016/08/17 17:03:33 by Xray
@Xray I respectfully disagree with age filtering. Just because a user is under 18 does not mean he will necessarily create marble races or athlons. I was personally 15 when I joined and 17 now, and I don't think I create non-technical scenes.

@INS YouTube promotes content that is popular. Naturally, the family video getting 7 views will not have the same weight as a multi-million view gameplay. The latter video will be displayed in the "recommended" homepage. Algobox does have the "Highlighted" bar, but the main interface offers every scene to get the same amount of exposure at first. Youtube does not do that.
Last edited at 2016/08/08 08:11:30 by Meerkoos
@Xray - I think under 18 is a bit much, counting I'm only 15 and faytree is 1-2 years younger than me last I checked.

An age limit like 13 would be fine, but another rule to the age would be that you'd have to act like a normal mature person and actually post scenes with meaning other than "lol im bored heres a circle xd"
over 18 is a bit much*
Well, if it really was up to me, I would have it so that anyone under 18 would have to PROVE to me that they are mature enough to join the adults. Everyone is different, and because of that, there are very childish 17 year old kids, and there are very mature 13 year old teens. So, I think I would have anyone under 18 register as a probationary period. During some period of time (say, maybe 90 days) a person will have to prove to me that they are mature enough to join the adults. Simple as that. If a new user acts like a child by posting camps and poses, then they will become banned. That's how I would do it. But no need to worry about it because I have no plans to start another Algobox. (Everyone yells "YAY!!!") :lol:
Last edited at 2016/08/09 03:51:45 by Xray
@Xray A new Algobox? That sounds like a good idea. It will bring the technical scene community tighter and promote innovation and discussion. Please elaborate though. How will it be done, when will we be able to see it?
To mutch usless scenes in "default". I dont want to hide it because sometimes are there good scenes.
@flashpoint - Yes, there-in lies the problem with the current system: Crap scenes mixed in with the good scenes. I could go through them and change the group on each of those scenes that were mis-labeled, but that would require too much of my time on a daily basis. The kids will just have to be more responsible, but that is like asking for a miracle. <_<

@Meerkoos - You must not have read my last sentence in my previous comment. It reads: "But no need to worry about it because I have no plans to start another Algobox." Maybe someone else will do that, but I hope he/she will strictly enforce the rules concerning age and/or maturity of users who log-in. I do not dislike kids (I have a few grandkids of my own), but I know for a fact that kids and adults cannot share the same "sandbox" without significant problems, and so I believe that the two groups MUST remain separated. Good luck to anyone starting and maintaining another Algobox type of website!
@Xray Whoops! Sorry, I misread because of your smiley face :lol: . It would be nice, but I don't think Algoryx would have anything to do with the new Algobox. Also, I did not know you where old enough to be a grandfather! Respect.
Yes, I am probably the oldest person on Algobox. Kilinich, s_noonan, and wild bill are all old too, but I think I might be a few years older than any of those guys. :*)

I may be old physically, but I still think like I'm about 35, and that's what's important! :lol:
@Xray-
I can guess that you're at your mid 60s now:bonk:
Last edited at 2016/08/10 10:03:18 by faytree
I have a feeling that Xray is an awesome grand-dad irl:lol:
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