Aerodynamics in Algodoo!

[Antotabo]

I will post my suggestion again here on the algodoo forum since the older one is closed:

(if you wanna see more of the developement see the old thread: http://www.phunland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=6619)

Hi,
Would be awesome if Phun could simulate the behavior of an object moving in the air. Then we would be able to; build airplane that really fly, add working spoiler on a sport car, simulate falling leaf motion, create all sort of things that generate lift or drag or torque (spinnig motion) in wind...

Thorero submitted the Idea of Airfoils and since that, I've been working really hard on how to approximate forces on a moving polygon in air.
I started a new thread because the idea changed is path and a real solution came to life. This is the basis of the method for solving aerodynamic in Phun:

Two forces provenant from the aerodynamic pressure on each segment of a polygon can be calculated by the angle relative to the movement, the lenght of the segment and the speed of the segment and they are applied at the center of it. These forces are called LIFT (Perpendicular to the movement) and DRAG parallel to the movement. From those you can then calculate the moment (torque) applied at the center of gravity produced by this segment by multiplying the respective perpendicular distance between the midpoint of the segment and the center of gravity. This method calculate the forces on each segment like if the others where not existant. Meaning that a segment does'nt affect the other by deflecting the airflow. But for Phun it still accurate enough to let most aerodynamic behaviour happen.

So here is my last post that resume my last work that I've done on excel:

New beta release! even more easy to use since the centroid is calculated. You then don't have to find it by yourself. Just enter the coordinates of each point defining your polygon one by one counterclock-wise and the angle relative to the wind in the blue section.
See the 2 sheets containing examples: airfoil and simple polygon.

>>> THE PHUN AERODYNAMICS CALCULATOR: http://dl.free.fr/t15MgHxII/AerodynamismeBeta5.xls <<<



Please, you HAVE to take a look and try it, its easy now!


This calculator is the ultimate proof that aerodynamics can be and should be implemented in PHUN. I'm so proud!

Please gave me feedback!!
Thanks.

For more informations on previous developement go to the airfoil discussion


NEWS : I've thymed a part of my work!

Scripted Wing 3.0

Antotabo

Rating:
Filesize: 80.61 kB
Comments: 11
Ratings: 8

Go to page 2 for more details.

Last edited by Antotabo (2009-08-24 17:53:42)

[thebeech]

this is once again, really good 100% Support, thanks for putting all your time into this I really hope this is integrated in version 2 or an update .

[Antotabo]

Thanks for the response.

I noticed that since the algodoo forum came to life, admins look at what's going on. Can I have a feedback from one of the admins please? Please let me know if you took a look at my work, what do you think of it and whether you think its a good thing to implement.

[Antotabo]

Any comment?

Sad to see that more the Post is controversial or useless or senseless, more people will post to say they disagree. But when people agree ..... they tend to not even reply a word. Please, don't let this post die in silence!

Please reply!

[izacque]

The fact that you've created a mathematical model is promising. Problem: lag much? Repgahrolls car, for example, already lags a tad, but if phun were calculating the aerodynamics of each piece, then you might as well have made the car outa water.

[KarateBrot]

i always thought that this suggestion is one of the best mainly because it's so advanced and well developed. you didn't just say "we need aerodynamics" you even made calculations for it so it's nearly ready to implement.
that's just freaking awesome!!

FULL SUPPORT

[izacque]

I'll support as long as there's an option to turn it off (cause of lag).

[KarateBrot]

i don't think it takes much cpu to calculate it because algodoo solves extremely big algorithms. this little part is nothing compared to that i guess. but yeah, an option to turn it on/off would be cool.

[Fujitsu]

It's pretty much the same as turning off air friction or gravity, no?

[thebeech]

It's pretty much the same as turning off air friction or gravity, no?

i guess so, and it could just take the place of the air friction button, or it has 3 clicks, off, basic and advanced, basic being what it is now, and advanced being the new idea

[KarateBrot]

would be cool

[Under Ground]

If it was simulating aerodynamics, it would need to simulate air. And algodoo has unlimited space for air, which means unlimited lag.

[KarateBrot]

If it was simulating aerodynamics, it would need to simulate air. And algodoo has unlimited space for air, which means unlimited lag.

it only needs to simulate an additional force at the geometry depending on velocity, angle, shape, density of air and such stuff. there's no need to simulate air particles or something like that.

[Tank2333]

wow this is relay good suggestion
and the best i think would be if u could select object to be aerodynamic

because

[izacque]

good point. even with aerodynamics, the only way to make an airfoil fly is to have propulson systems that are:
1. inside the airfoil
2. doesn't collide with air

The fact is, anything you attach to an airfoil will reduce its aerodynamics

[KarateBrot]

The fact is, anything you attach to an airfoil will reduce its aerodynamics

it would also be very good if only the outer part will be regarded and no objects inside the airfoil geometry. but to switch on/off aerodynamics for every single geometry would solve this very easily so i think it's much better.

[Torn]

Support! I would love to see this implemented!

[Sonic]

I support as long as you could turn it off, both overall and of indivual objects.

[Sniperkasa]

Sonic individual would propably be airfrictionmult.. i think.

[Sonic]

Yeah but what if I want airfriction, but not airfoil so I can make something that requires that distinction?

[fox11trot]

Ok where are the admins???

This would be very cool for algodoo!!
give people another reason to pay for it

[Antotabo]

Yeah but what if I want airfriction, but not airfoil so I can make something that requires that distinction?

Can you explain more???

Air friction is in fact a transfer from kinetic (moving) energy of a body into heat energy in the air. And this is an extremely tiny part of what *brakes* an object in air. So like 99.9 % of the braking or lifting forces come from pressure differential (aerodynamic) and not from *friction* like it is called in phun.

Edit: I think i get what you are saying. The topic is about implementing aerodynamic on ANY shapes. So, if you make an object similar to a airfoil, it will behave like so, if you do a rectangular box, it will behave like a rectangular boxe to, etc...

[izacque]

I get the feeling that implementation is on its way and the admins are trying to keep it secret

[Antotabo]

Yes me too, cause they never ever seems to care, like if they never seen it. Can they?

Else I'm "preaching in the desert". Does this expression exist in English?

Please don't let it die...

[standardtoaster]

We don't have a suggestions best forum yet. ;D this would
definitely go there. It adds more realism to Algodoo.