No more "Phun"?

[tgp1994]

Absolutely. I was originally nagging on the fact that phun wouldn't be getting not as much attention, but now that you say that, I'm really angry.

[Dezzeron]

Which are literally dirt cheap these days. But I reinforce my point, I liked phun as a free, open, continually worked on project.

Agreed!

[Tank2333]

i think phun is worth the 29€ i spend much more money on much more useless games and other stuff ^^
ok u can get gmod for 10€ and gmod is realy fun ( i played it till gmod 9) but i mostly tried to build stuff in gmod
like a car with mechanicle steering and stuff like that
but if u want to make mechanicle stuff and so u cant just buy gmod and be happy with it

but algodoo need mucn improvement if they want to attract other ppl than geeks like us XD
and when u think of it, this programm is just 2 years old and it is developing extreme fast if u look at 3.5 4.22 5.28 so its hard to imagin what the future brings maybe in 1 year it is underpirced with 29€


but i ddint thought that phun would be dropped that hard
maybe they had no other choice because when non phun ppl come and see that nearly the same prgramm is avalible for free they wont buy algodoo

[admin]

Well, obviously we cannot have one version which is fully commercial that has identical functionality with another product that is completely free. Algodoo Phun Edition has tons of new functionality, that was added as late as March 31, and we still make it available. This is probably one of the stranger business decisions on this market, and it was a really difficult decision for us to take. It seems that many and most really like it, since it does give freedom of choice, while a small handful have all kinds of doubts about us.

The one thing that is most puzzling, is that a few of our users tend to think that they "own" Phun. This gives a strange feeling to us who have spent 15 years of research in this area of computational physics, and now many man years integrating this into Algodoo, not to mention Emil's instrumental work on realizing the whole project.
If this type of attitude grows, it would probably be the single reason for withdrawing or cancelling Phun Edition, so it is really up to the community to figure out which attitude to have.

[tgp1994]

So you would Torture us by removing Phun completely if we complain? That gives me an even worse attitude at the thought of it. What makes you say people "own" phun?

[Sonic]

I am irritated about being misled over the role Algodoo was going to play and Algoryx's intentions with Phun. I was left with the impression that Phun would continue about the same as it had been, and Algodoo would be the moneymaker, with some extra educational features and such. Instead, Phun has been dropped. The website is frozen and Phun takes a back seat in the new forum. We are being told that Phun isn't getting any more updates. As far as I can tell, the Algodoo website doesn't even acknowledge the existence of Phunland. This is not what I expected at all.

Preach on, Brother Frank! Finally someone who also sees the truth, and see them for the liars. that they are. I've been saying it ever since Beta 5 came out, but nobody listened to me...

[Chronos]

I am irritated about being misled over the role Algodoo was going to play and Algoryx's intentions with Phun. I was left with the impression that Phun would continue about the same as it had been, and Algodoo would be the moneymaker, with some extra educational features and such. Instead, Phun has been dropped. The website is frozen and Phun takes a back seat in the new forum. We are being told that Phun isn't getting any more updates. As far as I can tell, the Algodoo website doesn't even acknowledge the existence of Phunland. This is not what I expected at all.

Preach on, Brother Frank! Finally someone who also sees the truth, and see them for the liars. that they are. I've been saying it ever since Beta 5 came out, but nobody listened to me...

sonic, shut the hell up already. read kens post. the only reason phun will die is because of people like YOU. so just shut up. if you hate algodoo so much, DONT BUY/USE IT -.-

[Sonic]

I am irritated about being misled over the role Algodoo was going to play and Algoryx's intentions with Phun. I was left with the impression that Phun would continue about the same as it had been, and Algodoo would be the moneymaker, with some extra educational features and such. Instead, Phun has been dropped. The website is frozen and Phun takes a back seat in the new forum. We are being told that Phun isn't getting any more updates. As far as I can tell, the Algodoo website doesn't even acknowledge the existence of Phunland. This is not what I expected at all.

Preach on, Brother Frank! Finally someone who also sees the truth, and see them for the liars. that they are. I've been saying it ever since Beta 5 came out, but nobody listened to me...

sonic, shut the hell up already. read kens post. the only reason phun will die is because of people like YOU. so just shut up. if you hate algodoo so much, DONT BUY/USE IT -.-

I DIDN'T! Read my signature!

[tgp1994]

I don't see why We're the ones killing off phun. It's already been put to sleep, as Frank indicated.

[Sonic]

I didn't say you guys were killing off phun.

[tgp1994]

I was replying to Chronos there. He doesn't seem to know what he's talking about.

[Sonic]

Oh...
Anyway, we don't think we "own" Phun, we just think that making us pay for it is a major blow for free enterprise, not to mention proves that you guys lied to us. You said Phun would stay free when Emil went to Algoryx, but its not.

Man won't Emil be surprised when he comes back and sees us fighting like this...

[tgp1994]

So wait... who's making the calls here?

[Sonic]

It's probably Emil. It's his product. He didn't HAVE to go corporate with it.

[Fujitsu]

Since when did Phun cost money? I've never heard of such a thing, in fact you can still download it off the Phunland website for free. I'm pretty sure that it's a fact that Phun will never cost money.

Algodoo, on the other hand does cost a reasonable amount and is, in my mind, an fine example of free enterprise. It's not constrained by government interference and it's governed by supply and demand.

Or do you mean free enterprise as in everything for free?

[admin]

Every single simulation method in Algodoo and Phun comes from long-term research by Algoryx staff (15+ years), and so do most planned features and improvements, and we have even placed some patented methods in Algodoo. Algoryx has also funded almost all of the development of the free version, the website, phunbox/algobox etc.

We give a 80% discount to the community and Phun Edition is still available as usual. Both Algobox and the forums have been beefed up alot. We have not announced how we will develop and release Phun Edition in the future, and our experience is that it doesn't make sense to discuss this with the community since a few community members tend to both dominate and ruin the dialogue, so this discussion is kept in closed forums.

We are amazed, no, actually quite sad, to see that a few tell the story that big bad Algoryx has kidnapped and destroyed Phun. It is a totally made up story, a fantasy. Algoryx is a great example of a free enterprise, driven by competence, innovation, and lots of motivation and energy. I go way beyond what is common (or even healthy) for a company in that I comment these things in the open forum. I would imagin that almost any other company would just remove these topics completely and ban the users. However, the community IS important to us, and when we are being unfairly accused of ill-doings we meet these accusations by argument and by requesting support from the rest of the community.

The active core community consists of around 250-300 users, whereas we have had 1.5 million downloads of Phun, of which 1.495.000 obviously never came close to the Phunland forums and the community. This is a relevant difference you should add to your own perspective when reflecting about Algodoo.

[Chronos]

I don't see why We're the ones killing off phun. It's already been put to sleep, as Frank indicated.

you dont bother reading kens posts, do you? -.-

[gradyfitz]

Every single simulation method in Algodoo and Phun comes from long-term research by Algoryx staff (15+ years), and so do most planned features and improvements, and we have even placed some patented methods in Algodoo. Algoryx has also funded almost all of the development of the free version, the website, phunbox/algobox etc.

We give a 80% discount to the community and Phun Edition is still available as usual. Both Algobox and the forums have been beefed up alot. We have not announced how we will develop and release Phun Edition in the future, and our experience is that it doesn't make sense to discuss this with the community since a few community members tend to both dominate and ruin the dialogue, so this discussion is kept in closed forums.

We are amazed, no, actually quite sad, to see that a few tell the story that big bad Algoryx has kidnapped and destroyed Phun. It is a totally made up story, a fantasy. Algoryx is a great example of a free enterprise, driven by competence, innovation, and lots of motivation and energy. I go way beyond what is common (or even healthy) for a company in that I comment these things in the open forum. I would imagin that almost any other company would just remove these topics completely and ban the users. However, the community IS important to us, and when we are being unfairly accused of ill-doings we meet these accusations by argument and by requesting support from the rest of the community.

The active core community consists of around 250-300 users, whereas we have had 1.5 million downloads of Phun, of which 1.495.000 obviously never came close to the Phunland forums and the community. This is a relevant difference you should add to your own perspective when reflecting about Algodoo.

I've used photoshop for quite a few months now, and, I think Algodoo is of a higher value than photoshop , yet Algodoo manages to be half the price of an average game , overall, I think as a company, Algoryx is a company that I would want to deal with.

To be honest, I think that there may always be these people in the community, there were these people at the release of beta 5, and, these people were also in beta 4 at a point, really, they don't know what they are talking about.

So far, I don't think Algoryx has made one single wrong move that hasn't been fixed. What I always think is amazing, is how quickly Algodoo/Phun progresses, and thinking of how far it will be in another two years.

Algoryx, you've done a great job . It is quite unfortunate that people do not see how great Algoryx is in their method of everything.

I think that people will eventually change their views, when they realise that their views are based on made up stories, and misread posts. I think that it is quite foolish to expect someone to continue on a program for their entire life from a statement saying something along the lines of "We don't plan to abandon the phunland community." Sure, they might well continue, and this would be great, but to expect that this statement means that they will never change the name or sell it, seems quite foolish, unless of course, you don't expect them to develop it frequently (for example, I don't think it would have gotten to this point if it wasn't worked on at Algoryx, being somehow paid or, with eventual payment, anywhere near as quickly, perhaps as a side project, one or two hours every few days, it might be up to this point in about 8 years).

Overall, Algoryx is doing a great job, and has a wonderful image.

[Tank2333]

gradys word in gods ear XD

[Torpedo]

Which are literally dirt cheap these days. But I reinforce my point, I liked phun as a free, open, continually worked on project.

Agreed!

Disagreed.

Since when was phun actually an open project? was the source code released, did either of you construct any of the source code? You didn't? So you wasnt worning on an open project with phun was you. You were beta testers.

Also, free? maybe to you, but think of it from algoryx's point of view. if they spent 15 years developing simulation techniques, what would that cost? 15 years worth of computer upgrades? if we say every 3 years they only spent £1k on a new computer, (yeah cheaper now but a few years ago for a top spec pc that could do simulation...) then they've already spent 5 grand, not to mention they must have had more than one computer.

Then come to the staffs life, they would have spent their own time working on this, and time that would not have given them any immediate return. When you think about it, what was to stop them when algodoo was made from showcasing algodoo to the education industry with a few examples by the algodoo beta testers, and maybe a few phun scenes, then just abandon both phun and algodoo communities altogether, pushing into education purely.

Also the forum hosting wont be free and has no advertising on it.

How old are the people who complain honestly? They've done the community a service offering it as cheap as they did, some specialist forums i know wont let you see the whole forum unless you donate that much, and you wont get an awesome game in return! Seriously, you see this as an item made at someones leasure like a pencil sketch made in your room that isnt what it is, this is commercial product that has been seriously invested in by just a handful of people. They've taken nothing away from us that you didn't have before. be greatful of what you were given.

Not to mention even if you dont want to use algodoo, you can still download phun but not only that, you can still upload to phunbox. free of charge!!! free hosting! no adverts! so whats the problem?

/rant over lol

[Frank]

Every single simulation method in Algodoo and Phun comes from long-term research by Algoryx staff

I did not know that. I knew at least a few things had been replaced with Algoryx techniques, but not all of them. That changes a lot in my view of Phun and Algodoo. Rather than slapping a new name on Phun and selling it, I suppose it would be more fair to describe Algodoo as a rebuild that takes advantage of the original community.

I also was not aware that you were keeping your plans for Phun secret. Link007 has been implying that Phun was finished and ready to be forgotten. As long as that isn't the case, then I'm content.

[Sonic]

Since when did Phun cost money? I've never heard of such a thing, in fact you can still download it off the Phunland website for free. I'm pretty sure that it's a fact that Phun will never cost money.

Algodoo, on the other hand does cost a reasonable amount and is, in my mind, an fine example of free enterprise. It's not constrained by government interference and it's governed by supply and demand.

Or do you mean free enterprise as in everything for free?

Yeah i meant as in everything is free.
But still...
I don't know weather to believe that they're going to keep Phun around.

I'm willing to keep my arguments under my hat...for now.

[Paradigm 29]

Don't worry everybody. I've done some detective work and I have found Phun. It's right here: http://www.phunland.com/wiki/Download

I know some of you might have been confused by the whole "Algodoo" thing, but as you can see Phun is still in the same place and it is still free to download. Thanks Ken for continuing to make Phun available on the Phunland.com site.

Also, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Here you are attacking Ken and Algoryx even though they try so hard to cater to you. They've given you a free gift and now you want more, at their expense. And at their expense they've reduced the price, but still that's not enough. The problem here is not Algoryx. The problem is that Algodoo is a game made with children in mind and Algoryx seems to have gotten it right because some users here just can't grow up.

[tgp1994]

Good for you, you found the place where we can download phun.

You seem to be getting the wrong idea of this. The free gift was given to us. But now, that free gift that was once loved and cared for by it's creators is now being put away in the closet to be forgotten about forever. All I'm asking for is that they take Phun in it's own direction. Algodoo can go be algodoo.

And I respect that Algodoo has taken it's own path as well. The Algoryx creators more than deserve some reward for their hard work. But completely forgetting about Phun seems a little harsh. I don't know, open source in half a year. I bet by then Algodoo will be completely different anyways.

And you would have to be a very bad company indeed, if you banned users at the slightest remark against the company.

[Chronos]

The problem here is not Algoryx. The problem is that Algodoo is a game made with children in mind and Algoryx seems to have gotten it right because some users here just can't grow up.

most epic diss ever