Suggestions

Suggestions for Algodoo Phun Edition.

Suggestions

Postby phunatic » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:16 am

Ok. I've been using Phun for a long time, and I've come up with a list of suggestions that maybe could be implemented in newer versions of Phun. (As if anybody cares, right?)

1. Why do solid objects pass through each other when they have too much force on them?
Seriously, its really annoying. You can shoot a high speed object, such as a bullet, at a thin box and the bullet will pass right through it. If Phun didn't have this problem, I think people could create a lot more complicated scenes.

2. Algodoo/Phun arguments.
A. Why, when I open a Algodoo scene in Phun, do the springs not have the same stregnth. They are weaker. Couldn't they have at least made the springs in both Phun and Algodoo compatible?
B. Every time I open an algodoo scene with phun, It screws up the "restitution" on the water. If I run an Algodoo scene in phun, then make a box and liquify it, the water droplets fly all over the place when they collide with eachother. Then, the only way to fix this problem is to reinstall Phun again. :(

3. Hinges.
Why can't hinges be completely solid, instead of drifting all around the place when too much weight/force is on them. Once again, if this problem was fixed, I think that people could make way better scenes.

4. Gears. Aside from looking cool, they're pretty much worthless. The individual teeth of gears will pass through each other at high speeds, or when too much force is exerted on them. They tend to "grind" You say "well, your vehicle is too heavy, or try to make it lighter." You try it, and see what happens

5. Something maybe for newer versions of phun.
All objects could have this "squishable" setting. For example, if you had a box, and you dropped another heavy box on top of it, the first box would deform permanently to another shape. I think you could do that with solid objects, right? maybe.. who knows
Do you have a shovel for your physics sandbox?
User avatar
phunatic
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:04 am
Location: USA

Re: Suggestions

Postby gradyfitz » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:08 am

phunatic wrote:Ok. I've been using Phun for a long time, and I've come up with a list of suggestions that maybe could be implemented in newer versions of Phun. (As if anybody cares, right?)

1. Why do solid objects pass through each other when they have too much force on them?
Seriously, its really annoying. You can shoot a high speed object, such as a bullet, at a thin box and the bullet will pass right through it. If Phun didn't have this problem, I think people could create a lot more complicated scenes.

2. Algodoo/Phun arguments.
A. Why, when I open a Algodoo scene in Phun, do the springs not have the same stregnth. They are weaker. Couldn't they have at least made the springs in both Phun and Algodoo compatible?
B. Every time I open an algodoo scene with phun, It screws up the "restitution" on the water. If I run an Algodoo scene in phun, then make a box and liquify it, the water droplets fly all over the place when they collide with eachother. Then, the only way to fix this problem is to reinstall Phun again. :(

3. Hinges.
Why can't hinges be completely solid, instead of drifting all around the place when too much weight/force is on them. Once again, if this problem was fixed, I think that people could make way better scenes.

4. Gears. Aside from looking cool, they're pretty much worthless. The individual teeth of gears will pass through each other at high speeds, or when too much force is exerted on them. They tend to "grind" You say "well, your vehicle is too heavy, or try to make it lighter." You try it, and see what happens

5. Something maybe for newer versions of phun.
All objects could have this "squishable" setting. For example, if you had a box, and you dropped another heavy box on top of it, the first box would deform permanently to another shape. I think you could do that with solid objects, right? maybe.. who knows


There are work-arounds for most of these.
1. These objects pass together when they have too much force on them, this is fixable by increasing the simulation frequency (Sim.frequency = <x> where <x> is above 100, I usually do about 100000, depending on what I'm doing), though, this particular problem happens because the programmers of Algodoo/Phun decided that users would rather that objects penetrate other objects and be able to run thousands of geometries on an average computer rather than near stopping this and running all the calculations at 1,000,000 Hz (depending on what you're working with it may be practical to run scenes at 1 million Hz (Sim.frequency = 1000000)), most users can just change how their system works to suit the 100 Hz frequency, allowing for them to easily run the scenes.

2A. The reason they don't have the same strength is that Algodoo springs run on a different method than Phun springs, I expect that when the next version of Phun is out, they will be the same or comparably similar :).
2B.This is because viscosity is at the moment not simulated in Algodoo, which is why it is set to 0, water generally wont work the same in Phun as in Algodoo (because Phun does not have incompressible fluids at this point in time), this can be fixed by manual modification of the values changed by Algodoo scenes, or, more long-term safe, setting the config.cfg file found in the Phun folder to "read-only" :D.

3. This problem is because of the fact that it is quite difficult to create a method that is able to generate stiff hinges in real-time simulations. It can be fixed by modifying quite a few different variables (there are a lot of combinations that could make this better, but I'm not easily able to tell you which configuration would make this the easiest to compute while being the most powerful), if you find the combination that allows for an easier to compute yet more powerful hinge model, then I'm pretty sure Algoryx would be happy to hear :D.

4. This is a result of low frequency, which can be fixed by increasing the simulation frequency (explained in 1.), there are a few variables that you could modify, which would result in very little of such slipping (App.forceVertexPolygonDrawing = true and App.alwaysCalcContacts = true do help), modifying these variables may make your simulations run slower (I haven't noticed any negative performance by this though), but, if you really need to stop from slipping, you should have no problem putting up the frequency or slowing down the speed :D.

5. I think this is in the Algodoo roadmap.

So, although I can see that you do want these things, it does seem apparent that you don't know how much work has to go in to make these happen, I actually don't see a lot of these as real problems in most cases, a lot of them can be fixed by working on a larger scale (or smaller time step). I think that Algoryx is always trying to make a lot of these things better, but it is not always a very easy task to make these modifications :D.
Mechanisms: 18 Mechanisms.
Thyme: Tutorial - Variables/Commands List.
Thymechanic
gradyfitz
 
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:33 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Suggestions

Postby Chronos » Mon Jan 11, 2010 11:03 am

Shorter version of Grady's post: Everything on there has been suggested.
TheWinkits wrote:They both looks of cuking amazing
User avatar
Chronos
[Most Active Member 2010]
 
Posts: 4457
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:00 pm
Location: Californania

Re: Suggestions

Postby phunatic » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:04 am

Thank you for the comment, gradyfitz. It was very in depth. Very detailed.
but your last comment was unneeded (Sorry, I don't want to start an argument here)
"So, although I can see that you do want these things, it does seem apparent that you don't know how much work has to go in to make these happen"

It's quite the opposite...
I do understand what goes into these programs. Many times have I tried to make something like Phun. It's not easy to simulate gravity, let alone rotation and collisions. I feel sorry for the programmers of Phun/Algodoo, and what they have to put up with, but that is their job now, to make improvements.

but thank you for the info. I'm sure a lot of people will find it helpful. I did.
Do you have a shovel for your physics sandbox?
User avatar
phunatic
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:04 am
Location: USA


Return to Suggestions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron