Any hopes for linux version?

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Any hopes for linux version?

Postby savask » Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:12 pm

I have been tracking Algodoo's evolution for quite a while, and one thing bothers me. Why no linux version? Was it's development unprofitable or something like that? Or maybe we can expect a linux version in the near future? All posts about it say: "linux developer is on a vacation" which is rather ironic cause according to that he has been on a vacation for about an year :-P
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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby electronicboy » Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:17 pm

Hey,

I spoke to the Linux developer a few months ago, and he said that the current state of linux, algodoo is impossible to be made in a stable condition that will work well.

The problem is that the more recent versions of algodoo require libraries which aren't standardized between distro's, thus coding with them is almost impossible, and its just currently impossible to get around this issue.
Who knows, maybe in the future, but for now, Algodoo for Linux is off the table until further notice.

If you have any more queries about this, feel free to reply on this topic, I can redirect you in the right direction should you have any more questions!

Sorry for any Inconveniences,

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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby savask » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:35 am

Well, of course I'm not that familiar with porting problems as the staff member is, but I've never heard about those "not standardized libraries". Usually it's hard to port system programs and especially drivers, but not 2D games :-)
It would be really great to know if there is a solution to this problem. Maybe it's possible to link Algodoo with those libraries statically, or just make versions for main distributives (like Debian/Ubuntu) only?
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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby electronicboy » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:36 am

The 'not standardised libraries' are where distros like Ubuntu has one version, and Debian has another.
The algoryx team has decided that it is not financially viable to target the Linux platform due to this.

For the time it would take to maintain several versions for different distros, will enought people use it?
Or will it just be seen as unprofitable? In the current OS culture, it's the latter. Who knows, with corporations like valve porting games to Linux with the release of windows 8, who knows if Linux may end up as the new desktop OS?

When it becomes financially viable to target Linux in its current state, algoryx may consider it, but until then, algodoo for Linux will remain dead.

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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby savask » Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:52 pm

Eh, just as I thought. Sometimes I think that it would be better if Emilk made Phun opensource before Algoryx found him :-D Anyways, thanks for answering my questions.
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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby egymonk » Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:41 pm

Seems a nice bullshit to me. :) There are myriads of developers who *CAN* develop for "current state of Linux". Sure, they must be superhuman coder-geniuses or member of some alien race if they can do an "impossible" mission. :-P

To be honest, half of the Linux desktops running ubuntu. You could have target that platform only if you like (with minimal change to reach debian sid users) and - of course - you can always use static libs, exchanging maintenance for size, negating the whole problem.

(btw, "financially viable" reason looks somewhat outdated now that algodoo is free.)
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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby electronicboy » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:22 pm

egymonk wrote:Seems a nice bullshit to me. :) There are myriads of developers who *CAN* develop for "current state of Linux". Sure, they must be superhuman coder-geniuses or member of some alien race if they can do an "impossible" mission. :-P
>If you knew a lot about linux, you would know that the differences for coding between linux and windows are huge, this
>would practically require a full re-write of anything dealing with input and output.
>You would also know that many distros that use common apps, such as mono which I'm having to compile manually as I speak,
>actually end up having a branch dedicated to that distro.


To be honest, half of the Linux desktops running ubuntu. You could have target that platform only if you like (with minimal change to reach debian sid users) and - of course - you can always use static libs, exchanging maintenance for size, negating the whole problem.
> Actually, the Distro trends are changing all the time, so, you can never ensure that what you're targeting now is a good idea.
>Also, static libs have an issue, and can cause unstabilites in certian distrobutions, especially when communicating to certian other
>systems that change all the time, what works in one system, may not work in another.
>Especially due to the variaty of "ubuntu" distros.
>and, Algodoo has a development team of 2 members, either specialise in either OSx and Windows.


(btw, "financially viable" reason looks somewhat outdated now that algodoo is free.)
>just because it's free, doesn't make it any cheaper to develop. They still have to pay a linux developer to
> develop the program, so, "Financially viable", it's actually in a lot worser state now.
> Algodoo is currently pulling in funds using other means and contracts, however, they aren't exactly earning a fortune





Also, I must add that it's possible to run Algodoo in wine, it's surprisingly stable with very minimal bugs!

The algodoo team is having a meeting soon, as to discuss the roadmap for the next half a year, as they take it in chucks at a time, aiming for a set list throughout the mid year, as well as taking up extra work from bugs and other stuff they find they want to add.
I've asked for a few things to be raised up, and for Linux support to be reconsidered, as well as a small list of other stuff.
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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby W3ird_N3rd » Mon Dec 16, 2013 12:56 am

electronicboy wrote:The 'not standardised libraries' are where distros like Ubuntu has one version, and Debian has another.
The algoryx team has decided that it is not financially viable to target the Linux platform due to this.

That's just silly.

There are two ways to deal with this. One is to use libraries provided by the system, making proper dependencies for the package manager, writing the program in such a way it works with several versions of libraries as not every distro includes the same versions (for example, Debian stable would provide an older version than Debian sid). This can indeed be quite hard.

Libraries are used like this (dynamically) because it's more efficient (many programs can use one library, less disk space) and is easier to update (update one library and it's updated for all programs).

But especially with closed source this quickly gets hard as the people who make the distro can't just compile your program themselves against the library versions they use, so you get a ton of work.

This is what is usually the solution to that: you link the libraries statically. So this makes the download a little bigger and makes updating more complex (as you need to update Algodoo seperately when you want the latest libs), but it makes the development a ton easier and the result will run on nearly every distro.

I would more than welcome a version with statically linked libraries.

By the way, on Windows, this is the standard. This is also part of the reason why Windows is such a mess. When an exploit is found in some library, you have to update every program you use seperately to stop being vulnerable. On Linux, if every program plays nice and links it dynamically, you just update the library and you're done.
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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby electronicboy » Mon Dec 16, 2013 3:03 am

The issue with libraries was just one part of the bigger picture, however the libraries was one of the main issues with linux directly.

Algoryx's only developer who was able to develop for linux was pulled away from algodoo to work on another project, due to algodoo on linux not exactly being requested with linux and mac versions being a lot more popular than linux. I've been told this by a dear friend of mine at algoryx, whom has also stated that should algodoo for linux become essentially worth it, then they will consider starting to maintain a linux version.

I think that even if we ended up convincing algoryx to allocate some time of the developers job to push towards linux, we probably won't see much for quite a while, algoryx has somewhat put algodoo into a slow running pile while it performs works on other projects.

also, I think that the reason you also stated at the bottom of your post is why they've never done that, it wastes HDD space, and maintaining the libraries can be a real pain and leave you in a complete mess should you be forced to update one library e.g. major security flaw patched in a later version. Sometimes you can just import the new library or recompile it, however sometimes you can get too cozy on a old version, and then when you update you end up having to rewrite 10% of your code due to depreciated calls and the like.

Anyways, I'm currently waiting to find out what algoryx has determined the future of algodoo to be, which not much has been said over the past few weeks due to the teams being busy working on another project. They will probably either have the process of setting the TODO goals for algodoo's next time period, or some bigger news might end up coming up based upon talks with them.
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Re: Any hopes for linux version?

Postby Flofighter » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:58 pm

Any news ?
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