DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

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DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:25 pm

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The ultimate goal of this collab is to build a computer that, in theory, is ENTIRELY MECHANICAL.
More specifically, the Intel 8080. Then, maybe an 8086.
Yes, this is styled from Conundrumer's Digital Laser Computing Collab.

I have built this Accumulator using the beamsplitters I based off of Matthias Wandel's Marble Adding Machine.

I also included a "punchcard" that will store marbles in the RAM array that I have not built yet. Push the button on the right to release the marbles. It collides on C.

This collab WILL NOT consider onCollide scripts that change the collideSet of the marbles "scripting". Why? It's the only way to "simulate" stuff moving in the third dimension. If you want a marble to roll down a ramp, then bounce off a box and roll down another ramp, past the first, it is easy in real life. Just put the second ramp behind the first. But, onCollide collideSet changes are the only way to do this in Algodoo.

We need:

Mechanics -
Thymechanics -
Phundamentalists - Me
Thymers -
Not programmers yet- we need a computer first!

And you Thymers- DO NOT THYME ANYTHING UNTIL WE HAVE BUILT IT WITHOUT ADDING ANY MORE THYME!!
Phundamentalists, you know what I mean.

Please go ahead and Thyme the accumulator and punchcard- I have built those without Thyme, but PLEASE make it phunlet-friendly. If you use scene.my in the punchcard, we WILL NOT me able to use a bunch of them at once.

And when you do, we can add mechanical stuff to it.

Stuff we need to build-
Accumulator - Me (DONE)
Punchcard - Me (DONE)
RAM - Me (DONE)
Accumulator that can do Subtraction -
Multiplier - Me, after the RAM array and somebody Thymes the accumulator.
Improved Marble Dispenser (with app.mousepos) -

We also need to get plans for the 8080. Probably available for free at Intel's website. I hope. If not, we can reach for the theoretical relay computer in CODE: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software by Charles Petzold.

I will not teach you binary unless I really need to.
Needless to say, this computer will use 8bit bytes, which just happens to be the bandwidth of my cards, my accumulator, the 8080 and Petzold's relay computer.

Hmm, I will edit the accumulator scene so the marbles have more thyme-friendly colors. You know, so they are easier to spawn.
Last edited by Someone Else on Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:43 am

*bump*

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Okay, pretty pitiful bump, but I cannot figure out how to get this thing to work.
I just need these AND gate things to work and I will be able to finish it.

Oh, and have I been shunned from computer collabs? That Babbage machine thing died after only two posts.
Then again, I only started this today.

Part of the reason for this is that I read Matthias Wandel's "dream" of a marble computer. That was the inspiration.

And, on a slow forum day, I started this.

What really gets me is, Conun's DLCC was one of the most popular collabs ever. I made the most out of my bump, and NOBODY SAID ANYTHING. I felt sure that either I would kick-start the collab again, or Chronos would get mad at me again.

Anyway, back on topic, I NEED HELP. Just look at the scene. Now, I want to dig Ravenplucker's new epic-ma-bot and add some fixes.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby ducky21 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:33 pm

Some problems include:
Not being able to reset
:arrow: solution = make a return mechanism like the marble return mechanism.
If a gate is open but b or c is nor, then car is stuck.
:arrow: solution = make doors to drop down
no output
:arrow: solution = make output (duh)
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:12 am

I am close to finished with an obscenely complex, but completely reusable system.
Part of it is Thymed, but in the scene I have a Phundamentalist proof-of-concept.

All that's left is the output.

Will hopefully have it done tomorrow.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:31 am

*bump*

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Read the description. It's important. And I am too lazy to copy it here.

And yes, I know the thumbnail fails.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:37 am

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*bump*
Okay, time to Reboot!
I have built a gizmo that adds 3 bits together- a full adder. So, when this gets Thymed, I might be able to build a MULTIPLIER- yes, a multiplier. 11010011 x 00101011 = ???
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby davidz40 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:21 pm

I was inspired by Your machines, and decided to build four arithmetic operation engine. Division is not yet implemented, but I have arleady an idea :twisted:
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Sun Mar 13, 2011 5:48 am

Thank you for bumping my collab. Frankly, I have not built anything for this collab since the full adder. (Not to say I haven't been pondering.)

You are probably a mechanical genius. This looks cool, but I cannot download now.

And I have had an idea for converting a binary number as several marbles into decimal in Thyme, then back into a binary string of marbles. The first part is easy, the second I think you have already developed code for. In that wireless communication device. If you can script a box such that its controllerAcc (or any other variable for that matter) gets converted into binary, with one bit in each textureMatrix value, I can then handle the rest.

And, what I really want out of that calculator thing is this:

:arrow: You put a number into the A slots and the B slots. [note: BINARY strings]
:arrow: These marbles stay there (in those RS flip-flop things I made) until-
:arrow: You drop a marble into an operation slot. This initiates marbles being pushed around inside the calculator so the sum or difference or product or quotient (mouthful) drop simultaneously out of several slots at the bottom of the machine, while some leftover marbles roll out the side for recycling.
:arrow: THEN, a single "timing" marble drops out the bottom. This ensures that the next module is activated AFTER the input is in place. THIS IS CRUCIAL IF WE ARE TO BUILD A COMPUTER.

And also, I found that (once we build a marble computer) most of the hardware and Thyme is already in place- your newest programmable Phun computer. And I could probably set up some marble-based programming system.

And I will probably upload a scene soon explaining my ides of mechanical multiplication. It's based off the well-known algorithm for multiplying big numbers with pencil and paper. And binary makes it really easy.

Okay, now I FINALLY gain Download Privileges (but maybe my computer will fail and make me reboot)

No reboot, but when I downloaded the scene...

HHHHHHEEEEELLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........

1. You didn't use my marbles.
2. Input / Output is very awkward. Input is not binary, Output is hard-to read numbers. Not marbles.
3. Marbles are disposed of, not recycled.
4. You edit marble properties in script other than color, controllerAcc, and collideSet. :evil: I now deem Color Scripts and ControllerAcc Scripts Allowed In My Collab, If and only If these changes are only used inside the machine and fixed before marbles become output.
5. You don't use my starting scene as your base. This means INCOMPATIBILITY, PEOPLE! And I have to undo a Drag before I can undo the simStart.
6. Umm... I can't think of anything else, so I will stop ranting. Very interesting concept. Now if it was only compatible... I will probably work on that once I figure out how to Thyme some stuff. After you upload your division thing, unless you beat me to it.

And PLEASE... STAY WITH MY COLLAB! Please!
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby davidz40 » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:01 pm

I will stay with collab. Sorry for incompatibility, I need to take a deep look into your mechanism to understand what's done and how. Of course I can use Your marbles.

And thanks for insight how operations could be done. BTW I know what method of multiplication You mean (shifts and adds), but I decided to use repetitive additions because division is very similiar-repetitive substraction until stored number<substracted number, then number of substractions is answer, and leftover stored number is math.mod.
I had idea of binary-analog(number of balls) comparator, but I also think that switching to full binary operation is better. In fact, I have done full binary add/substract machine, so I'll switch to it and re-think multiplication and division.

Only non-collision changing script is density change to allow easy non-lag elevator. I always try to cut down number of objects used to bare minimum, important thing if We want to build full computer without epic lag.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:07 am

Use impossible restitution for elevators. Tweaky, but works great and probably doesn't break the rules.
I Now Deem Impossible Restitution Elevators Allowed In My Collab.
There. So be it. And full-binary addition and subtraction is very easy now that you have built an analog version that is almost exactly what we want anyway. And it already has Two's Compliment already built in! [0 - 1 = 111111111; 0 - 10 = 111111110. Notice nine bits.]

I am currently working on a Thymechanical Binary -> controllerAcc -> textureMatrix -> Binary Converter. It will use color and controllerAcc scripts (for identifying marbles). Most of the script goes into one box (accurately labeled "The BRAIN") whose script will rival some of yours for complexity.

Now, I must figure out the decimal -> binary conversion in your Wireless Communication Thingy.

Hmm... That isn't really what I want, so I find myself forced to do a really complicated script that will not be finished tonight. Binary -> controllerAcc works, controllerAcc -> textureMatrix is incomplete, and I haven't even attempted textureMatrix -> binary yet.

And I'm building this so it can be used as a base for other stuff that will be a less-lag Thymed version of the original mechanical thing.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby davidz40 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:20 pm

Just one more question. What way of signal transmission will be used? I mean, separate channels for every bit, and balls representing 1's, or one channel with balls placed one after another, with separate "0" and "1" balls? Second option seems better, because takes less space and cannot go out of synch.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:37 pm

Use 8-bit parallel systems. This will be the mode of transferring marbles from one module to a nearby module- they are hard-wired together.

However, the computer will be programmed with the 8-bit punchcards that you will find to the right of probably all of the stuff I have uploaded. I suppose this is part of why the timing marble is so crucial- to set the card off down its track, but only after all the marbles are in place. And make the track collide only on B.

Hmm, I will need to build a gizmo that will act as a 256 X 8 RAM- storing punchcards in a 16 / 16 array, pulling them out when called upon for reading and writing. After the 9-Bit Latch is Thymed.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby davidz40 » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:23 pm

Okay, I looked at Your computer. There are many very interesting ideas, especially that punchcard is a neat design.


But the whole thing is indeed hideously complicated. I will try to use parallel channels where possible. But can I use one channel transmission too? (it's way simplier to move constant-length 8 ball queue through one channel). I'm asking this because moving balls around in 8 channels and trying to have all things synched will be nightmare in some situations, as well as parallel binary/decimal conversion etc. My wireless transmitter was sequential too.
And switching back to parallel is as simple as placing the queue over punchcard-like synchroniser, letting them fall into places, and discarding 0's balls (by simply not colliding with them).

And have You considered how much 256 punchcard RAM would lag? When I selected punchcard, Algodoo said that it has 94 objects. 94*256=24064 moving,colliding objects. That's insane.

I hope You won't get angry at me for all that criticism :? I just feel that some things must be simplified to allow running programs in reasonable time. For example, storing balls in 8 bit queues allows RAM consisting of 257 vertical boxes(256 ball queues)+256 open/close gates. Single long column is sufficient for creating stack-type memory.

To sum up:
I propose Your collison A balls for most operations, and identical collision B "0" balls for ease of handling and sequential signal processing like binary/decimal conversion, where it's crucial to detect that 0 bit arrived.
That's my opinion, but I'll not insist on it if You really don't want it.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Someone Else » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:17 pm

I will not get mad at you. Yet. :think:

I will allow you to use your queues, but only after you stick two modules together with 8-bit parallel channels. To Phundamentalistically prove it possible.
And I would also suggest you use cyan balls to represent ones and black balls to represent zeros. All on one collideSet.

And I should probably upload what I have for binary -> controllerAcc conversion. Soon. Hopefully today. I don't know what the Conspirators say about uploading, so I will not risk it.

One half of this collab is building mechanical parts, the other half is Thyming them to reduce lag.
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TC42 wrote:Also, your sig is too big, please change it.

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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Conundrumer » Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:47 pm

are you still alive?
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Chronos » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:10 am

Yes, I'm sure after over a year of not posting, they've been communicating and working on a giant project in secret, and are just about ready to post it.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Conundrumer » Tue Jun 12, 2012 3:41 pm

if you pay attention to algobox at all, I uploaded a scene that uses marbles as pieces of data, and I have a glimmer of hope that I'm not alone on this.
Do you even play Algodoo? What are you doing here?
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Nait » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:01 pm

Conundrumer wrote:if you pay attention to algobox at all, I uploaded a scene that uses marbles as pieces of data, and I have a glimmer of hope that I'm not alone on this.
Do you even play Algodoo? What are you doing here?

It looks like he's good only in words, and has done nothing worthy of attention.
Comparison of his forum and algobox activity gives bad results...
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby TC42 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:39 pm

What's an algo-box?
Image
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Chronos » Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:12 am

Nait wrote:
Conundrumer wrote:if you pay attention to algobox at all, I uploaded a scene that uses marbles as pieces of data, and I have a glimmer of hope that I'm not alone on this.
Do you even play Algodoo? What are you doing here?

It looks like he's good only in words, and has done nothing worthy of attention.
Comparison of his forum and algobox activity gives bad results...

I know I'm a bit late on this reply, and I wouldn't normally respond to something that's a month old, but seriously? I don't make anything so I'm not allowed to post? Do you even realize how stupid that sounds? I don't see why my skill in Algodoo or my frequency of posting scenes has any relation to my ability to comment on someone asking a question (quite frankly, a somewhat useless one at that) on a topic that no one has posted on for over a year. Seriously, tell me how those two have anything to do with each other. I dare you.
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Re: DMCC- Digital Marble Computing Collab

Postby Conundrumer » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:47 pm

Don't know who you're talking to but I don't care. Here is the hardware for a call stack.
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