Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Things specific to the scene sharing facility "algobox". New scenes, bugs, suggestions, etc.

Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Postby Dare » Thu Apr 28, 2011 12:12 pm

Just noticed this new feature.

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I tried it out, it's really cool! Posts direct to your Facebook that you have liked this scene.

I really wish they would tell us about these new things instead of simply implementing them without telling anyone.

Your thoughts please.

Edit: Updated the image. /Emanuel
Last edited by Dare on Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Emanuel » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:40 pm

Oh you are too fast!

I've added both a Facebook Like button and a Twitter Tweet button.
Please let me know if they aren't working as they should,
for example, if the link isn't working on Facebook or Twitter.

/ Emanuel
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Sonic » Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:11 pm

Facebook is taking over man! Nice work! :D
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Dare » Fri Apr 29, 2011 7:55 am

Yeh it's really great actually!

...

Now a new website please.

No, that was too demanding. Please think about a major website overhaul and give us users the functionality that Algobox really deserves.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Someone Else » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:16 am

Hmm... There was a topic a while ago that I can't find about how Algobox could be improved.

I think one thing that was suggested was about sending uploaded scenes to a "secret" website not viewable to people not logged in, and from there they must be approved by the registered users so they can appear on the normal site to be seen by anyone.

I was thinking that this could be improved a bit by making a computer figure out how to tell a "good" scene from a "bad" one, then send the scene to the appropriate place where it could later be corrected by the users. "It" is the computer, not the scene. The scene gets moved, the computer gets corrected.

There was also something somewhere about integrating Algobox into the forum.

Can't be much worse than what we have now, eh? [no offense intended]

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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby RicH » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:44 am

The "Algobox into Algodoo forum" idea has been suggested way way back, probably at the time the first thread about "not being able to log-in to Algobox" was posted. Yeah, some people already thought the forum account was connected with the Algobox account in the first place.

I can't see how it's possible for a computer to tell whether or not a scene is good. So you give it a record of good scenes and bad scenes, how's it gonna differentiate a newly uploaded scene from one and the other? Judge whether the geometries are aligned? Check the code for similar numbers? :|
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Emanuel » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:07 am

RicH wrote:I can't see how it's possible for a computer to tell whether or not a scene is good. So you give it a record of good scenes and bad scenes, how's it gonna differentiate a newly uploaded scene from one and the other? Judge whether the geometries are aligned? Check the code for similar numbers? :|

Another problem is that whether a scene is good or bad is subjective, and a beginner might be looking for feedback on a scene that in some eyes can be seen as a simple (or bad) one.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Dare » Fri Apr 29, 2011 11:23 am

Very true. there is nothing wrong with the way scenes are shared, it's just I wish we had more functionality. Scene grouping, view subscribers, more personal info (optional), etc.

I think the best way would be like YouTube, with own personal "channels" (obviously call it something else). I just think Algodoo is such a great program and users seem to want more function from the website.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Emanuel » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:05 pm

Dare wrote:Very true. there is nothing wrong with the way scenes are shared, it's just I wish we had more functionality. Scene grouping, view subscribers, more personal info (optional), etc.

The tags are suppose to provide grouping of scenes, but it is not integrated well enough as of now.

The question is how to best achieve relevant tags.
Should there be a fixed set of tags or should any one be able to create a new tag?
Maybe a collaborative set of tags is the best, that can be filled as the need for new tags emerge?
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby tatt61880 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:29 pm

I've tweeted via tweet button. :)
Nice work!

P.S.
Feel free to follow me if you have Twitter account. ;)
NOTE: I'm not an Algoryx member.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Someone Else » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:35 pm

Emanuel wrote:
Dare wrote:Very true. there is nothing wrong with the way scenes are shared, it's just I wish we had more functionality. Scene grouping, view subscribers, more personal info (optional), etc.

The tags are suppose to provide grouping of scenes, but it is not integrated well enough as of now.

The question is how to best achieve relevant tags.
Should there be a fixed set of tags or should any one be able to create a new tag?
Maybe a collaborative set of tags is the best, that can be filled as the need for new tags emerge?


A collaborative set? Isn't that already in action?
But I agree, the current tag system needs to be improved.

@RicH: You're thinking about it the wrong way. Basically say, "Computer, this is a good scene. This is a good scene. This is a bad scene. Now, go onto Algobox, download a scene, if the rating is 6 or higher, it's a good scene, if it's 5 or lower, it's a bad scene. Repeat this precess until you've downloaded every scene on Algobox and formulated a pretty good idea of the difference between a good scene and a bad scene."
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Chronos » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:33 am

There shouldn't be any sort of approval for Algobox, SE. It's meant to be able to be used by anyone, and every scene belongs on there unless it breaks the ToS. Don't like it? Too bad. Just stop trying to make Algobox so elitist.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby TC42 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:46 am

I guess I don't really like this feature. Why would you want to tell the entire universe that you're uploaded a new scene? The buttons just get in the way, for me at least.

But it is good to see the algobox get updates! :thumbup:


Someone Else, I still don't exactly like your idea. I think it overestimates the power of computers to 'learn' reliably. How is a computer supposed to learn when an awesome scene could contain hundreds of objects and lines of code or 3 boxes and no code?
What do y'all think about there being a usergroup for algobox users with forum accounts?
Also, Emanuel, can you add a feature to disable the tweet/facebook function? Like how you can disable comments and ratings?
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby RicH » Sat Apr 30, 2011 3:54 am

Someone Else wrote:@RicH: You're thinking about it the wrong way. Basically say, "Computer, this is a good scene. This is a good scene. This is a bad scene. Now, go onto Algobox, download a scene, if the rating is 6 or higher, it's a good scene, if it's 5 or lower, it's a bad scene. Repeat this precess until you've downloaded every scene on Algobox and formulated a pretty good idea of the difference between a good scene and a bad scene."
:|
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That still produces the same problem. The computer can't "learn" the difference between a good scene and bad scene, no matter how much you feed it. It's all just a bunch of code. Numbers. What's it gonna do with those? Get some numbers from good scenes and compare them with new ones? It can't do that. Get it?
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Someone Else » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:27 am

@Chronos: I guess I get what you're saying.
@RicH: How's a computer suppost to learn how to play Jeopardy? By exactly the methods I described. Look here.
Maybe make the computer generate ratings for scenes until they agree with the human ratings, and then rate scenes upon upload and make that the default rating?
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby RicH » Sat Apr 30, 2011 4:46 am

Someone Else wrote:@RicH: How's a computer suppost to learn how to play Jeopardy? By exactly the methods I described. Look here.
Maybe make the computer generate ratings for scenes until they agree with the human ratings, and then rate scenes upon upload and make that the default rating?

You can't justify how good a rating is just by looking at it's code. It's qualitative. Scenes have a wide range of being good or bad and how they attain that. By what you're saying, yes, it learns how to rate, but what basis can it give for these ratings? Can you explain how it can go rate a scene(from examining code from scenes and comparing them with other scenes?) What did it pick up after it "learned" what to do? What's it gonna use to make it.
Emanuel wrote:Another problem is that whether a scene is good or bad is subjective, and a beginner might be looking for feedback on a scene that in some eyes can be seen as a simple (or bad) one.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby Someone Else » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:07 am

The same arguments can go to say that Optical Character Recognition through Machine Learning is impossible. Not so, says the Postal Service.

There are two ways to make a rating not subjective. Either ask a hundred thousand people or ask a computer. The computer, of course, had to learn form a hundred thousand ratings, each provided by a hundred thousand people. After that, however, the computer is much quicker.

Is it just me, or is this terribly and horribly off-topic? Can't be very likely that we'll all get banned, with Emanuel going along with it and all, but I am inclined to invoke the "I win." rule.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook!

Postby RicH » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:37 am

What, we can't have discussions now? You're too paranoid. And obnoxious for saying that whole "I win." thing. Ugh. That looks very self-righteous.

Anyway, sure, computers can learn. But first, you gotta understand, what makes a scene good? This is way different from Optical Character Recognition. Characters follow a pattern, a shape, if you will. There is something similar throughout all the characters, no matter how it's written. You can't say the same for good scenes and bad scenes. A computer only sees it as a bunch of code, numbers. With character recognition, it's possible to use that, as there is bound to be a similarity in the different ways people write letters(how the letter A is written, how it archs, the spaces between it etc.)

I PM'd you by the way. :|
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Postby Someone Else » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:18 am

I saw the PM. And I probably am too paranoid. And I want you to prove that it can't be done.

TC42, I think it only alerts the Universe when you click on that button. Not when you make an upload.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Postby RicH » Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:28 am

There would is no similarity between any scene in terms of code. The codes of the scene is what the computer reads. These are numbers, basically. Say I make a scene that is so damn awesome because it's so simple, let's say it is a new type of engine. Now, I have another good scene which contains a unique trebuchet. How is the computer going to detect those are both good if it only sees the numbers in it's code? Does it compare the position and properties of it's geometries with it's previously given knowledge of good and bad scenes? Please, just address this one. How is it going to compare it? What is it gonna use to rate it?

Think. What exactly makes a scene good? Can it be found by a computer?
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Postby Chronos » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:04 pm

Basically, what Rich is saying, is, the way a scene is made is always different. If you'll look at my Algobox account, you'll notice there's a scene that's just one box and a plane. However, that scene would be considered "good," since it aided myself and some other people in new technologies in Algodoo. Now look at some of those crap scenes made by other people, with way more objects, hinges with motors, things like that. It has much more than my scene, but many people think it's "bad."

Now here's the problem: The computer thinks my scene is good, and that the other scene is bad. It now thinks that basically all scenes with a single box are good, and all scenes with hinges and motors and things are bad. Then to make things even more complicated, someone rates a scene with one box bad. Now the computer doesn't know what to think. It'll be stuck somewhere in the middle. Eventually, more single-box scenes get a bad rating, and my useful one is removed.

Now, remember that other example I gave, with the crappy scene? Well there are other scenes with motors and polygons, and a lot of objects, except these ones are actually good. The computer will think that even the crappy scenes are good, therefor, making this idea counterproductive. It'll delete simple-but-good scenes, while letter complex-but-bad ones through, which is the opposite of what we want.

Therefor, this is a bad idea, and it would also require way too much time and effort, plus the need for an extremely strong supercomputer that can rate that many scenes at once all day, 24/7.

So... anyone read I, Robot? :P
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Postby Someone Else » Sun May 01, 2011 4:45 am

I am still a firm believer that SOMEDAY, someone [aka IBM] will make a computer that acts virtually indistinguishably from a human.

Likely a few hundred years in the future, some think, but others think is will be a few tens of years. I don't really know.

But whenever this happens, I will be able to use the sort of process I spoke of earlier (probably via email, relayed by an IBM executive) to persuade this computer to write a program that recognizes whether a new scene will likely have a good rating.

I will then relay this code to Emanuel, or whoever the active admin at that time might be.

And then, you will be forced to realize that
Someone Else wrote:I win.
[that is to say that I find this argument pointless as it is clearly going nowhere and want it to stop.]
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Postby RicH » Sun May 01, 2011 4:58 am

Someone Else wrote:I am still a firm believer that SOMEDAY, someone [aka IBM] will make a computer that acts virtually indistinguishably from a human.

Likely a few hundred years in the future, some think, but others think is will be a few tens of years. I don't really know.

But whenever this happens, I will be able to use the sort of process I spoke of earlier (probably via email, relayed by an IBM executive) to persuade this computer to write a program that recognizes whether a new scene will likely have a good rating.

I will then relay this code to Emanuel, or whoever the active admin at that time might be.

And then, you will be forced to realize that
Anyone other than me wrote:I win.
[that is to say that I find this argument pointless as it is clearly going nowhere and want it to stop.]

We're talking about now.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Postby TC42 » Sun May 01, 2011 5:00 am

Someone Else wrote:I am still a firm believer that SOMEDAY, someone [aka IBM] will make a computer that acts virtually indistinguishably from a human.

Likely a few hundred years in the future, some think, but others think is will be a few tens of years. I don't really know.


If the algobox is messed up now, what do you think it will be like +100 years? :wtf:

No offense intended.
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Re: Algobox Gets Facebook! Twitter Too!

Postby Someone Else » Sun May 01, 2011 6:50 am

TC42 wrote:
Someone Else wrote:I am still a firm believer that SOMEDAY, someone [aka IBM] will make a computer that acts virtually indistinguishably from a human.

Likely a few hundred years in the future, some think, but others think is will be a few tens of years. I don't really know.


If the algobox is messed up now, what do you think it will be like +100 years? :wtf:

Hopefully better than it is now. Or, more likely, nonexistant.

@RicH: If I knew how to program it, I would try to do it now. But, I don't, so I will wait until I can talk to the computer and ask it to program itself. Modern computers are said to be "Turing complete", which, I think, means that it can do anything a much larger computer can, given enough time and memory. I know that modern computers can do this, I'm just not sure about the term.
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